A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

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A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Tinkle on Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:45 pm

No flaming involved... at least on my part! Respect that if you can, the "authority" is more likely to acknowledge the problems if they aren't wrapped up in asshattery before handed to them. Thanks. That said, i'm not afraid of people finding out who I am so beside the name, I won't attempt to disguise that. I think i've made my feelings known to enough people that someone is bound to know.

Pros:
-You can create any dragon that you can come up with.
-People who weren't on Neopets can join and thus increase the member-base.
-Forgiving to previous members who were banished several years ago and have since changed.


Cons:
-Designed to draw people in and make them waste time on collecting gems, elementals, tokens, eggs, and what have you... similar to Neopets.
-Unrewarding to those who don't waste time on collecting said virtual objects.
-Does not allow creative people to jump headfirst into the Dragon Clan world with their pre-established characters. Must "re-earn" them, a system which favors the popular or anyone willing to make the biggest bid (i.e.: Real money).
-Irrational member fear of new people (3 day wait limit), anyone who might make a surplus of characters if the retstraints were taking off (who does it really hurt but themselves?), "n00bs", and what have you. Which leads us to..
-Still a very elitist community with members that hold themselves up over their peers and over those who haven't joined.
-Moderators who will serve as punching bags for your complaints but will otherwise ignore them, even when publicly posted.
-Admins who will just outright ignore the complaints, add in "small changes" to appease the members afraid of change, or say something along the lines of "It's fine, learn to play".


Overall, the outlook here is not good. Cons far outweigh the pros. So I suggest something i've suggested several times already; why not just lift the restraints off of the forum? It's not as scary as you think it'd be. Unrestricted access WOULD let in some "n00bs", some bad apples even, but even then... moderating those FEW INCIDENTS is a LOT less work than moderating and hand-approving every applicant. A basis of member-moderation is not as scary as it sounds. Members intuitively will know when somebody may be trouble, and can forward the incident to any moderator or admin who can then watch said individual. This said, member-moderation is the answer to the unfounded fears about "those who will make 20+ characters in ONE DAY!"... as if anyone couldn't tell that was what somebody was doing, and could thus avoid them or otherwise make them aware that they didn't think that was a good idea. I don't get why so many people are afraid of this happening... how does it really hurt them? Are they afraid somebody will copy their character or try to make a mate for them? So, what do you do? Ignore those people, it's that simple. It allows you to make characters at your own pace and leisure, without having to get an "egg", relieves moderators of hand-approving EVERYTHING the member-base does (since they seem to think allowing this would make it harder on them, somehow)... and overall would probably be better and more inviting for new members.

My two cents, will probably add more later. Sorry if you're too lazy to read this, that's your own damn fault.

Tinkle
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Hobgobli on Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:46 pm

I fully respect your desire for no flaming Smile

I just feel like saying that I 100% agree with everything you've said. I'm not sure if you're someone I've talked to specifically, but your view points seem to line up exactly with everything I've found wrong with this new system. I wouldn't necessarily say "OMG CORRUPTION EVIL AND DECIET!" Rather I see it as a bad business model that is being managed as well as it can be - however it's seems like it's set up to fail. Let's quickly examine what everyone wants, this encompassing both the members who have a problem with the current DC and those who don't - they all want a place to socialize, draw dragon characters, and role play those same characters. IMO, those who want a pet site should stick to Neopets and Subeta and the like. A forum is not a pet site and it's far too complicated to try to make it work that way.

I feel like I'm rambling a little bit so I'll surmise to one quick phrase - Simplicity is more attractive than gawdiness. That's all I really have to say Smile Here's hoping some of the mods actually take a look at this board and take a hint.

Oh, and making no effort to disguise my writing style, I could care less if you know who I am at this point.

Hobgobli
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Tinkle on Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:41 am

Yes. Simplicity and member-governing would not result in anarchy and instead would probably fare better, if you ask me. There's really no reason not to try it out, the systems in place are overly complicated, overly bureaucratic (there's a form for everything!), and if I may say so... overly stressful on moderators that don't have enough time to be dealing with it anyway.

So, for example, if the need for most forms were eliminated by nixxing the concept of eggs, elementals, tokens, trades, and what have you... (you can keep the gems if you REALLY must!)... that frees up the moderators who were otherwise handling those jobs. This would perhaps allow one or two to assist the moderator in charge of the profile lists to keep things updated (since the main arguement I heard in result of a previous suggestion to just allow people to make characters whenever was "It's hard enough already to keep up with it"...). By allowing free registration and character creation (not having to be verified), that frees up the admins and the remaining moderators to moderate the site and make sure that things run smoothly. It really is a MUCH easier model to handle.

Tinkle
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Anon on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:43 am

Something's gotta change eventually. Especially now, with this forum, since we can share our experiences and opinions freely and start to build a picture of what's really going on.

Anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Hot Pota on Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:56 am

I can agree there. Every tiny piece of negativity was covered up by the mods and admin. They tried to silence those who did not agree with them. Proof of this - they deleted the Punching Bag thread. They deleted and ignored the Alley thread. They tried to down X simply because she has the balls to stand up and speak her mind about what is wrong. They removed the punching bag because they claimed it brought negativity to the Clan. And what of a punching bag not directed at other members? "Take it to your journal", they say. Thus, clearing away any negativity at all away from their site.

I don't think they were counting on this move. There's no way to moderate or edit this forum. They can't track the IPs and ban/warn us. Everything here is raw and out in the open. And public.

The world is not all sunshine and buttercups. You can't silence complaints and pretend the world is free and all is well. And if they try then they will encounter more and more members who will against them.

You want to fix the clan? How about start LISTENING to what it's members are saying?

Hot Pota
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Tinkle on Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:49 am

Unfortunately some people do seem to be happy with the situation for reasons I can't understand (happiness with the petsite atmostphere, sucking up, or that irrational fear I mentioned earlier..).. and because of that the administrators will stick to their guns because to them, somebody being happy must be all that's needed.

I'm not sure if anything will come of this thread. I honestly hope so. I like to see that other people feel the same. If an administrator or moderator sees this I hope they won't write it off. Nobody has been flamed and there has been no name calling... simply pointing out possible faults and some solution suggestions, like we were asked for.

So don't ignore us.

Tinkle
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  unwanted on Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:39 am

I would like to point out that this:

"-Irrational member fear of new people (3 day wait limit), anyone who might make a surplus of characters if the retstraints were taking off (who does it really hurt but themselves?), "n00bs", and what have you. Which leads us to.."

was only done because the members had given out approvals and were starting to withdraw them because of the fear of the applicant's history. To me, the behavior in that thread seemed to scream, we can't make up our minds! Take backs!! How unfair is that to the person who could have changed? Even if they hadn't, would it seriously hurt to have the person wandering around a while? Though I agree. the real world sucks ass and will walk on you if you give it the chance.

unwanted
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Anon on Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:24 am

I still think the three day rule is pointless. Ultimately, the problem is with the application system, though. Three votes and you're in? Isn't that kind of redundant?

Anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  mad duck on Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:34 pm

Agreed. If you guys are basing this system on blank slates and ignoring all past offenses, what's the point of having an application system at all? Why not just let everyone in and weed out the baddies as you go along?

mad duck
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Tootles on Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:58 am

I have to agree that the gems thing becomes a pain. I am a senior member, but I do not get on 24/7. I see members with 50+ gems, who play all times of the night and day. I have a life, but if I choose to keep that life I loose the privilages in DCL. Gems=neopoints?

Tootles
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  anon on Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:09 am

rose is going to ignore
the thread onsite
until it goes away
nothing will change
until rose learns to
respect the members
so the lecture to
respect her is just
shooting yourself in
the foot

changing will be a matter of not letting it drop

anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Kallden on Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:50 am

So then do you think calling Rose a bitch and saying her art sucks really helps the situation?

Kallden
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  anon on Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:56 am

i havent called her a bitch or insulted her art
sorry, ill endeavor to fulfill your expectations next time
Smile

in the meantime, the point was: if you let it die down onsite
your "mature" complaints wont make a difference

they may not anyway

anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Kallden on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:12 am

Maybe you didn't read the thread about Rose here, where everyone was insulting Rose. In fact a lot of insulting goes on here. All i'm saying is that isn't a good way to try and argue with someone, it puts them on the defensive and then you don't get anything done. Do you disagree?

Kallden
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  anon on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:24 am

i dont disagree
but then, statements like so are also insulting:


Kallden wrote:If you want something to change, act like it. Don't act like middle schoolers on the playground.

anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Kallden on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:28 am

MOST posts here have been highly childish ... like "FUCK YOU, ______" or "HER ART SUCKS AND SHE'S A BITCH, MAKING HER A BAD ADMIN"... that doesn't help anybody or the cause that the people saying those things really are trying to work towards. That's all i'm saying.

Kallden
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  anon on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:35 am

of course
relatively un-moderated venting forum full of adults
whatever language we may use
we are only expressing ourselves

fuck damn shit
bastard bitch asshole
cunt lesbian piss
dammit hell whore
bullshit faggot motherfucker
pussy slut twat wanker

if that offended you
plz exit stage right

if not, then admit to the fact that our opinions
are just as valid as yours, however we may originally state it
we dont, after all, use the same phrasing onsite

anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Kallden on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:54 am

It was only a suggestion, and also my opinion. I once dealt with a site similar to this one and the reaction to it on the moderation team was not good. People don't react well to being insulted. Nobody has to agree with my viewpoints at all, and it's my opinion like I already stated on my other thread. I also said I didn't expect anything to come of what I had to say, but that if something did change it would be great. I don't EXPECT change because I realize that everyone involved is stubborn and won't want to relent... or will argue about the best way to argue a point.

Your language doesn't offend me, though as to why this arguement is even being bothered with is beyond me. If you agree that it's not the best way to make a point, if you don't insult people yourself, why bother? I didn't say everybody did, just that they really probably shouldn't if they wanted anybody to take them seriously. I don't think adding "fuck you" into an arguement makes it any more potent.

Kallden
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  anon on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:58 am

i like to argue with people that consider themselves above the rest of us

remember when this forum was first posted?
the link was trashed almost immediately

the mods dont want to look at it
so even if were insulting here, theyre not listening anyway
if they were, theyd be floundering around a lot worse than you are

anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Kallden on Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:28 am

The link was up for around three days before it was taken down if I remember correctly. A forum moderator has posted a thread here trying to change something at least once, this much I know, though it may have not been about an issue that most people care about. Another moderator (probably the only one who is a good friend of mine) is afraid to look here because her feelings are hurt easily. Rose may not want to look at it, and from what I gather she's the only one who has any power to make things happen anyway-- that's why I said I don't expect things to change.

In either case I already said (how many times now?) that these are my views and i'm as entitled to them as you are to yours. They don't make me better than you, but the saying "You catch more flies with honey." exists for a reason. I'm leaving the site and will focus on helping build a new one that hopefully will make more people happy. If you're staying on the one run by Rose, then I wish you luck in trying to sway her opinions.

Kallden
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  anon on Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:36 am

it was two days, if that
and everyone who posted their publicly disregarded it
including rose and jez
so, no, nothings going to change no matter how we speak

that mod getting her feelings hurt easily is only proof that she is undeserving of her position

who wants to catch flies, anyway?
if youre suggesting youre a fly, then gtfo, this is my dung

/trolled

anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  Kallden on Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:41 am

Jez has posted here, fyi.

So, do you play Warcraft? If you do I bet you like to use level one alts on their forums, too, huh? Talking about peoples gear on armory sounds pretty good right now, amirite? My arena rating determines what kind of person I am, and it also determines what kind of person every human I come in contact with is.

Trolling is useless, why do it? Anyway, done with this thread until somebody who is actually concerned with the original topic comes back around. If you wanna' keep trolling me, i'll be on the thread about making a new forum! Hell, why don't you just IM me? That'd be great.

AIM: Rachelisms

Look forward to hearing from you again, mighty anon.

Kallden
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  anon on Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:48 am

if thats how you want it:
ur rating sux, rachel
gtfo and l2p

actually, just roll on a pvp server instead of being a chicken on a normal server
bring your cheap hordie losers over here where my gnome can pry their faces off and wear them as hats
hell, ill beat you with my holy pally
nya nya nya my wow peen is bigger than yours

epic anon is epic

anon
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  rippybit on Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:57 pm

I don't really know why there's an application system at all, really. It's pretty intimidating to someone who hasn't been on the DC before and doesn't really help draw in new members. I tried to bring a few friends to the site, but once they saw you had to apply they labled the site as elitest and wanted no part of it.

Open joining would be easier. If new people cause problems, then ban/warn them. It's not really a big deal. If the site gets big enough, then maybe bring it back, but there's not to many active people on the DC right now, so I don't think it's the best idea to keep it restrictive. '"N00bs" or whatever are sometimes the most active members, and n00bs do grow up. I don't know the drama of this site, I never had problems with the mods, I don't really bother to figure out the gems/eggs, but I wanted to put that out there.

As a note though, these rant sites really aren't cool. If you really want to show the mods this stuff, you should just show them this thread and delete the other ones. You only need one place to make a list of what you like and what you don't like.

rippybit
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

Post  blublub on Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:25 am

I think that's the problem -- Rose wants to feel elite. It's why she keeps pushing so hard to put restrictions and limitations on the member base. Instead of just giving us what we'd like to see (open registration, free for all RP and character directories, etc), she just... keeps being like "lol no. its nt fare 2 evry1!11!!!!!"

In actuality, the only one who feels like the proposed changes are not fair is her--she absolutely hated being "forced" to do fanart for eggs, and now refuses to back down until she gets something worthwhile out of it. She doesn't even like the member base of the site, so I don't know why she keeps at it.

So, yea, your friends are better off just avoiding the place. Stuck in elitist mode FTL.

blublub
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Re: A Comprehensive List of Pros and Cons

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